The funniest thing is the look on the inspectors face when they stick the mirrow under the car under at the drivers door and can't find an exhaust! Actually, they have checked under my hood on my other cars at the station in Hermitage off Central Pike (near the new police station). -Kirk Kirk's MR2 Page http://www.geocities.com/kirkosaurus/KirksMR2Page.html

Ah hell, I'd just tell them that it's powered by a 0 emissions nuclear reactor. Then ask them if they'd like to see the plutonium fuel rods. Hehe, watch them step back from the car - muuuuuhhhhhaaahhaaaaa. Yeah, I do remember getting a couple laughs from watching them look under the door's as well. I keep telling them the damn mice went on strike and one of the guys believed me.

Kirk I like the truck. I actually drove a yellow D. Runner and tried to buy it, but they just would sell if for what I could afford. During my hunt for a truck I have to say my 3 favorites were the Nissan D. Runner, Toyota Tacoma 4x4, and the ford rangers. If money were not an object, I'd be driving a 4x4 Tacoma or the Nissan D.R. I just wish I'd keep the my 2 and bought a truck like I'd planned to do before. Oh well, I'll just have to buy another one later. Right now school and engagement rings are the highest priorities. Dale

Hey Kirk, I just got around to looking at your truck picture. Pretty sweet! Once you get used to having a truck, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one. My wife's '95 Eclipse GS-T was used as our (truck) for years. It can haul a lot more a lot more than an MR2. So anyway congrats on the new trucks to you and Dale. I don't guess anyone from our group is planning to go to Bill Strong's Las Vegas SW 2003 MR2 / Celica All Track Meet, April 25 - 27. I kicked the idea around for a while, but decided flying there without my MR2 would not be that much fun. Here's a link if anyone who didn't know about it wants to check it out. http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/sw2003/ Later, Ray

I had wanted to go, but my bank account is in meed of help......

I got a great deal on it. My good friend bought it brand new in 2000 and just sold it to me at wholesale. How come when I send an email on yahoo groups it takes 2 days for it to come back to me??!! Kirk's MR2 Page http://www.geocities.com/kirkosaurus/KirksMR2Page.html

I think the Toyota will be more reliable. The Ford is good, but my Toyota experience is 110k miles with NO defects or breakdowns whatsoever. I've not spent a single dollar so far on anything but scheduled maintenance (except for removing a dent someone gave me in a parking lot). A friend of mine has an Explorer of about the same vintage and likes it, though he's had to fix a few mechanical bugs. The downsides to my '99 sport for me are 1) limited headroom - at 6' I brush the roof and 2) small gas tank. Rich

Toyota or Ford... OMG! Actually, I should not be surprised. A study showed that the distinguishing feature in making an SUV sale was the cup holders. Geesh. Buy the Toyota

Here is a clue. Look at used prices for a crystal ball into your future. When I went shopping for used, my budget was about $15,000. For that price, I could put my finger on 20 or more Ford Explorers on any given weekend, 4WD, XLT's, Sports and the like vintage 2000-2003, with 50,000 miles or less. I test drove 2 or 3 and almost bought one before I discovered a major problem with the gears binding in the crank case and a rear door that didn't quite shut correctly. I knew I had to come to my senses and look a lot harder before buying a Ford or GM product. In the mean time, no Toyota dealer had ANYTHING in a 4Runner for less than $20,000. I finally found a 1999 with 99,000 miles and everying else I wanted including a hood scoop (purely non-functional, sealed, cosmetic only-for those in the know-identifies it as a "Highlander") for $14,400. I know I will get another 100,000 miles out of it while I was pretty sure the Explorers I was looking at would be hard pressed to go another 50,000 without some major maintenance. Just the kind of unbiased review you were looking for? Seriously, I have owned so many American cars and trucks, and a handfull of Toyotas, a Datsun, a Honda, and I think I remember a little Mazda in there somewhere. Buy her the 4Runner. I bought mine for me but my wife loves it and so do all their girlfriends. I'm sure she will be happy with an Explorer too but it is just an Explorer. On the other hand, I don't see the wisdom of buying anything with 4WD for the kind of driving you describe. You don't need it for the flat lands of OK that is for sure and I know about those OK ice storms and people who put newspaper on the windshield of their parked cars. You don't need 4WD for just for ice. 4 wheel antilock discs all around would be nice. So would the old studded snow tires they banned in 1975. I used to tear up the ice with those....

Rich, what is the deal with the headroom? I am only 5'10" and I just fit in my '99. I forgot to point that out. They did goof in that department. As for the mileage, I tuned up my Camry at 120,000 for the first time and then every 60,000 miles after that weather it needed it or not. Never really did. I finally changed the cap, rotor, and wires at 240,00 which was dumb but I just did not think about maintenace very much. The wires were still fine but the rotor was a little worn. It ALWAYS gets 28.5 miles to the gallon and is going on 300,000 and I drive very hard. I did not baby this car at all.

I don't know what the deal is with the headroom either, but Japanese vehicles have traditionally been a little tight in the cockpit. I would think that would be ancient history now, but you never know. My ex-wife drove a Subaru Forrester and that had enough headroom for me and a 10 gallon hat ... but less legroom. I would fit a lot better if the vehicle didn't have a sunroof. However, it was otherwise perfect for me so I bought it anyway. As to mileage, my mileage is as advertised. I get 16-17 around town and 19-20 on the highway. However, the vehicle has an 18 gallon gas tank that I can only get 15 gallons into. I drive about 20k miles a year so I'm hitting service stations more often than I would like. No vehicle is perfect, and I can certainly live with this. I would buy the same vehicle again without hesitation! Your buying experience mirrored mine. 2 1/2 years ago I traded a '99 Corola with 60k (bought new) for a '99 4Runner with 65k. The 4Runner now has 110k on it. My prior comment about repairs spans both vehicles - no repairs needed to either yet. I looked at several nice, nearly brand new, Explorers for the same or less money than the older 4Runner. I just had to ask myself why people were willing to pay twice the money for a 4Runner, given year and mileage. After all, they cost about the same new! My question to you is about the Explorer you test drove. What does "gears binding in the crankcase" mean? That's one I've never heard before. Rich

Only 15 gallons in the 18 gallon tank? The tank is supposed to hold 18.5 and I find that the gas warning light comes on with 3 gallons or more left in the tank. It could be that you have never run it low enough to put in those last 3 gallons. So I took this really nice 2000 model Ford XLT home for a test drive for the weekend. Had 45 or 50k miles, they wanted $13,800 for it. Leather seats, all kinds of weird options like a backup radar warning, digital voice recorder in the sun visor, all kinds of stuff. I think the engine was a 4.0 Liter 6 and it had great pickup but shifted like a Ford, noisy, rode like a truck. Still, I wanted a SUV with a towing package that had not been used for towing. It had the hitch and wiring harness still in plastic bags in the wheel well compartment. Never installed. So anyway, get it off road, turn a little sharp and after a little while "bang" as if someone hammered on the underside about in the middle. I ignored it at first. I know better than to turn a 4WD sharply and not expect some noise. Another day, drove down into a field of wet grass and mud, had to turn around and in the turn, the gears start whining, getting tighter until "bang." Couldn't ignore that. I was able to repeat this exercise again at will but then I stopped thinking I was going to see a bunch of metal parts in my wake pretty soon. I test drove a few others after I dropped that one off but they didn't do it. Dealer called to tell me the transfer case needed repair, cost over $2400 so he could not offer that discounted price. This had an automatic 4WD setting like all-wheel-drive, as well as manual setting for 4WD so I think it had the differencial in the transfer case and not in front. I didn't bother telling him that his cost has nothing at all to do with the market price. By then I was driving the 4Runner.

First, as to the Explorer ... wow! Thank goodness you got the opportunity to drive it for a weekend before buying! I've never been able to do that. What a lovely fault in the transfer case!!! I'll take that to heart on my next test drive. You know ... a transfer case simply shouldn't go out after 40-50k miles. That's just poor engineering or construction. There's an interesting story I heard some years ago about GM having problems with a transmission made both in the US and in Japan. Only the US made units were failing. They tore them down and all the US market units met specs. The tolerances in the Japanese-built units, however, EXCEEDED the specifications. That made the difference in reliability. I know 2 people who've put new rear axles and/or rear suspensions in Yukon/Tahoes in the last couple of years, at the cost of $3+k. 'nuff said. As to the gas tank, I've never run it out of gas, but if I run it until the low fuel light comes on, then drive a few miles before filling it up, it doesn't want to take more than 13 gallons. If I squeeze the fuel in very slowly, it takes 16. I just don't care to spend the additional 5 minutes squeezing in the last 3 gallons. I posted to the list about this when I first bought the vehicle, and got several responses from others with the same problem, but no answers. The consensus was "we live with it." I suppose I should have taken it to the dealer immediately after purchase, but I was so busy with work etc. that I never really had the chance. I'd suspect a clogged vent of some kind. I've been telling myself I'm going to have it looked at for 40k miles now, but I will, sooner or later. Rich

I went to the dealer on a Saturday and asked to drive it "for a day" which of course means I have to return it Monday after work. I would never buy a used car or truck if they didn't let me take it home and drive a while. Another dealer I went to told me the other guy was nuts and that it is ILLEGAL to let a customer take a vehicle home. Yeah, sure, whatever. You should have seen this guy's hair cut. I love car sales people, I really do but I am always ready to walk away from any deal and find another if they are not reasonable. This dealer had two Explorers he said I could test drive. I opened the door of the first one and it stunk so bad of smoke I didn't go any further. The other one was a two-door Sport model. I drove off down the road and turned on to a street that leads into the shopping center. I wanted to find a parking lot so I could turn the truck sharply in 4WD on pavement and really see if this bang is just a Ford thing or unique to the other truck. Keep in mind, I was ready to buy the other one except for that "little" problem. I had returned the banger by then and promised to talk to them later if they could tell me what they found, assured me it was fixed, and gave me some kind of warranty on that repair. So anyway, I get to the stop sign, another car stopped at the cross street, put on the brakes and... all the way to the floor! No brakes. A little mad pumping and I got it stopped in the intersection. I did my turns attracting a lot of attention with the normal gear and tire straining noise but could not replicate the bang. Took it back and parked it then mentioned to another sales guy that he probably should not let anyone test drive it because IT HAS NO BRAKES! He did not seem very alarmed and commented that they must have just taken it in and didn't inspect it yet. I felt like a test dummy at that point. And these dealers tell you how they go through everything to make sure it is certified, pre-owned, blah, blah. So later in the week I went a Toyota dealer near my job and drove home with a 4Runner and promised to bring it back the next day. Drove it to work in the morning then went out in a field at lunch time and had a great time tearing up and down a muddy hill and across a very rough field. Went a construction site and did the same thing, flying over small humps, bigger hills, all kinds of terrain in 4WD High and Low. After work I stopped by the dealer ready to negotiate. If they were not ready to come to terms then I would have felt a little bad returning the truck in that condition. But I did have to test it out. After my Ford experiences you can hardly blame me? We closed the deal and they insisted on taking it in to be cleaned before I could leave with it. Now I did feel bad. So a LONG time later a kid brings it back and says, "you were 4-wheeling in this thing, weren't you?" Well, how else are you supposed to test drive a 4Runner? Your story of the Japanese and American transmission parts is the stuff of legend that they tell at the beginning of quality seminars and classes on TQM, SPC, etc. I heard it the first time in the mid- 80's only a few years after poor Malkim Baldridge fell off his hourse and died. Thank you Motorola for all your schooling. Coming from a manufacturing background I can tell you, either the parts meet spec or they don't. They can not "exceed" spec. For example (I will keep it in inches but we know the transmission was in mm with blue painted bolts for us "dumb Americans"), a hole diameter of .125" has a spec, or tolerance of +/-.005" Anything from .120- .130 "meets spec" If it measures .125" it meets spec. If it measures .120, .121, .122...or .130, it meets spec. Period. If you gold plate it and tape a dollar to each one along with a picture of your family and a note explaining that you really need this job before shipping it to the customer, then maybe you will have "exceeded expectations&q

Easy or not, I appreciate the information! Rich So yes, I am a loyal Toyota buyer while defending the American manufacturing. It's not easy being me. David

David