I am a happy Prius owner with almost 2000 miles on my Prius. One of the key reasons I leased my Prius is because of its SULEV status. I recently went to the EPA's new vehicle emission ratings and was dismayed to find the Prius listed in California as a SULEV, but for the rest of the US as an NLEV. The SULEV gets a "10" rating for emissions from EPA, but the Prius with NLEV is rated a "7" for non-California emissions states. I know that California is responsible for SULEV certification, but am wondering if Toyota has changed the specs or equipment on the vehicle for the non-California emissions states. Anyone from Toyota listening with information?<br>I know that California and EPA "reformulated" fuels are lower sulfur than much of the country and that sulfur can degrade catalyst performance. Most of the fuels in my region are high sulfur, although ARCO's regular grades are lower sulfur here. I have made a point of filling up only with ARCO fuels to avoid degrading the two catalysts on the car.

According to Priusman posts (sometime around Oct. I think) the same Prius is sold throughout the US. There is nothing special about those sold in CA. If you search the EPA site for the meanings of ratings they say CA gets to have a special set of ratings due to it's special pollution problems. So CA law has stricter requirements than US law and the EPA rating reflects this. Basically although its the same car in CA and your state, CA has a law to enforce the better rating and your state doesn't. So if some design flaw in Prius causes it to start polluting more in 2 years, CA will force Toyota to fix it if it drops below SULEV, but other states won't worry until it drops below NLEV. New York and some other NE states recently adopted CA's ratings and others plan to follow. Kinda wierd, huh?

Thanks for the info. I know quite a bit about the California and federal air regs because I am the Director of a regional air quality agency. What still doesn't fully make sense to me is if the car is the same, why is the EPA rating different? It must have something to do with actual emission performance in the other 49 states. Perhaps because of fuel. Toyota is advertising the car nationally as a SULEV. I'm still hoping to hear from someone at Toyota or EPA.

Dennis,<br>As we understand the the EPA ratings; CA, MA, NY, and VT, rate the Prius a "10", and neighboring states rate it a "7". Since you're the Director of a regional air quality agency, perhaps you can explain the differences to us.<br><br>Sam Williams

Sam - The explanation of the EPA ratings can be found at www.epa.gov/autoemissions/about.htm. The rankings go from 1 to 10, with 10 being the best performance or lowest emissions. What I am seeking info on is why the EPA would give a different emissions performance ranking in different states if the vehicle is the same. Dennis

Dennis,<br>As best I understand it, when we discussed this topic at some length when the EPA rankings were first published, there is only one model of Prius, so different states rank the car differently. Since you are the Director of a regional air quality agency, I'm a little concerned that you are having to interpret EPA's system, much as we are. Can you explain their system to us? <br><br>Sam Williams

Sam - This is complex, but here is a simplified version. The EPA and California set the two different levels of motor vehicle emission standards in the country. EPA sets the national standards and California has the authority under the federal Clean Air Act to set its own tougher standards. Other states may opt into the California standards for their state. The California standards have been tougher than those in many states because California has needed more air quality improvement. To meet some of the tougher California standards requires advanced catalysts and evaporative control systems. The advanced catalysts also require a cleaner, low sulfur fuel to operate properly over the long term because sulfur coats the catalysts and degrades the performance of the catalyst material. Both EPA and California have adopted newer standards that come into place over the next few years. EPA has adopted a "Tier II" standard for emissions that will require lower sulfur fuels nationally as well. Many areas of the country do not have low sulfur fuels at present. Those areas opting into EPA's "reformulated gasoline" get a lower sulfur level and a benzene cap, as well as an oxygenate requirement. Only "non-attainment" areas, those areas out of compliance with federal air quality standards can opt into EPA "reformulated gasoline". California has also adopted new, tougher vehicle emission standards, which include the SULEV classification, which allows about ten percent of the emissions of a current federal standard vehicle. EPA's Tier II standards, which come into place between 2004 and 2007 for all cars and light trucks, are about the equivalent of California's latest requirements, without having a ZEV, or zero emission vehicle (electrics or fuel cells) requirement as the main difference.<br>To complicate things, the NLEV vehicles are vehicles emitting below the current federal standard under an agreement between EPA and the manufacturers. But, they are not nearly as clean as SULEV's or Tier II vehicles.<br>The reason I raise the question about the Prius being listed as an NLEV for most states and being lower rated than the SULEV on EPA's web page is that I'm wondering what has caused EPA to rank the car that way. Is it because of degraded performance due to higher sulfur fuels and the potential the catalysts won't perform over the long term or what? I'm hoping someone at Toyota will know what has caused this and will let us know. I have been actively promoting the Prius as a SULEV based on Toyota's information and want to know if I'm somehow wrong.<br>Dennis

There is no difference from state to state. One little example is, I happen to know I got my Prius a bit early because someone in New Mexico cancelled their order. I'm in California and got that car (about 3 weeks early.) It was just re-assigned.<br>Order confirmation was Sept.1st or so.<br>I got the car 3 days before Thanksgiving.

The Prius is the same in all states. This is evident when looking at the Underhood label ID number, which is the same in sales areas 4 and 7. In contrast, the other top rated cars, CA versions of the Honda Accord and the Nissan Sentra, have different ID numbers in CA and elsewhere, as well as different ratings. I asked the EPA about this, and as I understand it, the Prius (or any other gasoline car) CAN'T rate a 10 outside of California because they don't certify cars as 10s there. So it's CERTIFIED as an SULEV in CA, but not elsewhere. Here's the exact text of the reply I got from the EPA asking if the car was the same and if so why the rating was different:<br><br>This apparent discrepancy is a result of the different sets of emissions standards available in different parts of the country. The 0-10 ranking reflects the level of the standards to which the vehicle is certified for a particular sales area; that is, the emissions levels to which the manufacturer is legally bound. Because California and the Northeast currently have a set of standards that is more stringent than the Federal levels, the vehicle can achieve a 10 for those states; the most stringent Federal standard on the books for this model year is a 7 (except for electrics, which are 10s). The SULEV standard is not legally available at the Federal level (for a bunch of complex reasons, mostly having to do with process); that is why the Prius is a 7 Federally. So, it is the same vehicle. We know that this is isn't ideal, but this is rapidly changing: as the tighter Federal Tier 2 standards begin to phase in (you should see some within the next year), gasoline vehicles will be able to Federally certify to 8, 9 and 10 levels.

Well put, cdnine....<br>To clarify, New York, Massachusetts, and Vermont belong to the same "sales area" [read: emissions requirement] as California. No mistake - California leads the way. So far, 3/49 of the others are following CA's lead. When will others join suit? What motivates a state to follow California's lead? How many urban traffic jams/smog days in Vermont were required to get the message across?

I see this has been answered (well informed group, but you know that). I'll just note that I am still listening. As described in a later post with text from EPA, there is no SULEV certification possible outside California and states adopting CA regulations. The cleanest standard on the books federally (until Tier II) was ULEV and that was only available due to an alt fuels/clean cities program. All Prius vehicles in NA have exactaly the same emissions hardware and software.<br><br>BTW, good choice to use low sulfur fuel.

ee_of_ee<br><br>I attended the Clean Cities Regional Clean Fuels Coalition meeting last Friday in San Diego. It was confirmed by a CEC representative that the Prius doesn't comply with CA's requirement as an alternative fuel vehicle under SB1782.<br><br>However, I learned later in the day, that apparently the state regulators relaxed it's requirement for percentage of ZEVs and is taking a closer look at including hybrids in the mix of clean emission vehicles. The buzz is that they will consider mileage and emissions. There is hope yet that some kind of incentive for hybrids is in the offing. CARB is expected to vote on this next month.<br><br>It probably wouldn't hurt if Calif Prius owners and potential owners sent letters or e-mails to CARB asking them to support incentives for SULEV hybrids. After all, clean air is one of their primary goals. Your support would be a big help also. We could use Maryland as one example with their $1500 incentive.<br><br>Their website is <a href=http://www.arb.ca.gov target=new>http://www.arb.ca.gov</a> <br><br>Ken

ee_of_ee - Thanks for your reply. I'm glad the vehicle is the same for all states. It is a good idea to run low sulfur fuel if it is available. All California fuel is, and reformulated fuels in many urban non-attainment areas is, but in many areas of the US sulfur levels can average 300 ppm. Because gasoline is often traded between refiners there is no guarantee of consistently low sulfur levels outside of California and reform gas areas. Beginning in 2004 all fuels in the US will be a maximum of 30 ppm sulfur, but until then it will be spotty around the US. ARCO has low sulfur regular in the Pacific NW and BP has it in some markets. TOSCO (Union 76) is developing it earlier than federal requirements in some markets as well. Others are specifically marketing low sulfur fuels in certain areas and it is good for any car to run that, but especially cars like the Prius. Checking with local refinery managers about the sulfur levels in their fuels is one possibility. Also, if you get a sulfur odor (rotten egg smell) from your exhaust, you can be sure the fuel is higher in sulfur.

This is a delayed response to a post 12/12.<br>The good news is ARB has proposed an expanded role for non-grid HEV (like Prius). As you observe the Public Hearing is in late January. The bad news is ARB has no authority to offer incentives either financial or HOV access. Their support could be helpful, but only the legislature can enact incentives. <br><br>I am invloved with ARB regulations as part of my job, but I don't lobby the legislature.

Chuck,<br><br>Actually the proposed changes would allow half of the 4% (2%) to be met by advanced technology PZEVs. Prius mets 1/3 of the requirements for a PZEV, it is an SULEV. The other requirements include 150,000 mle durability demonstration (currently 120,000) and Zero evap. We are studying how and when this could be done. <br><br>The other half of the 4% must be met with ZEVs or grid-connected HEVs. A grid-connected HEV plugs in at night and runs as an EV for the first 20 or more miles each day. Prius would require extensive changes, maybe not possible, to qualify. By ARB's test method, Prius has an AER of 0 miles.<br><br>Remember these are only proposed changes, we will know more after the January public hearing.<br><br>Have a good holiday,<br><br>Dave

Hi ee_of_ee,<br>It's fun to hear what's going on with CARB changes and Toyota's possible responses.<br><br>I noticed that Nissan came up with a PZEV (not particularly good mileage and they're making a whopping 150 total). I couldn't find anything on how they achieved zero evap. With the bladder and other evap containment equipment, I was surprised that Prius didn't qualify. Do you happen to know what they did to qualify for zero evap?<br><br>You also mentioned that Prius would require extensive changes and even then might not be able to qualify as a grid-connected HEV. I take it that's primarily due to the current speed restriction if the engine is not spinning. I guess it would also not have AC or good defrost, but maybe California doesn't mind so much. If the speed restriction is the only serious impediment, is there any chance the CARB would consider a "city car" mode? I take numerous short errand trips on weekends that seriously reduce the high MPG I've built up over the week commuting. I wouldn't mind running all electric and restricted to 35 MPH on those trips. Seems like you could add this mode just by adding one or two additional battery packs that charge from the grid and are only used in City mode. If you ran them out, you'd have to then switch to Drive mode and use the primary battery pack as it is used in the current Prius. I guess City mode would also require the transmission oil pump to be powered by a motor instead of the engine.<br><br>I guess another grid-connected hybrid could be the much hoped for RAV4 or Landcruiser with electric only drive on the rear wheels. Add a few additional grid-connected battery packs for the rear wheels and you're off (how often do typical SUV drivers really need 4WD?).<br><br>And for all you hybrid fans out there, I noticed that the Hybrid Dodge Durango that's "promised" for 2003 or 2004 has a "Through the Road" hybrid system with a gas engine in front and electric motor in the rear. There's no mechanical linkage (other than the road) between the two systems. I guess it would work (might be a bit hard on the tires though), but seems somewhat anticlimactic from a technological point of view. No CVT for them (one of the best side benefits of the Toyota Hybrid System).<br><br>Robert Snyder<br>NJ-PIKACHU<br>I know, most of this stuff will only be available in California. Thanks, Toyota, for letting us Jerseyites play the hybrid game also!