Ok, this is probably talking religion, but...<br><br>I know nothing about solar power. But these systems I'm seeing just dont make financial sense.<br><br>For example:<br><br>www.sunwise.com<br><br>They make solar systems for the home. Typical system is the 1200 watt model. By their numbers the system produces 1,471 kwh per year. The model costs $9885 before tax and any credits.<br><br>My calculation for California:<br><br>1471 kwh * $0.12/kwh = $177 per year savings<br><br>($0.12 is high, because nobody who buys a Prius would use over their baseline allowance of power, right :) )<br><br>The system costs:<br><br>$9,885 * 1.085 tax = $10,725<br><br>So it costs $10,725 to save $177 a year.<br><br>Investment:<br>$10,725 at 5% year = $536 year return. (more actually). Use $177 to pay some electricity and reinvest excess $360.<br><br>Tax Credit:<br>If you qualify for a program that forces your neighbors to pay for some of your system (tax credit), then the cost is $7,725. The return on that is $386/year. Still more than what you get from a PV system.<br><br>Am I missing something?

theloosethread

Several things to consider here.<br>Your solar panels shoud be expected to last 20-25 years. Many are guaranteed for that period.<br><br>In most of Calif. your buydown will be $3 per ac watt output or up to 50% of the system cost. If you get power from LADWP and buy PV panels made in LA you get $5 per ac watt and up to 50%.<br><br>Did you buy your Prius solely for gas mileage or did other things influence you choice; such as new technology? or the SULEV emissions rating? Do you feel good about using less gas or polluting much less? I would.<br><br>I also feel good about not having to rely so much on the utility company and the %#*&%@ power producers. I can also thumb my nose at the oil meisters who have invaded our nations capital.<br><br>Ken

"Did you buy your Prius solely for gas mileage or did other things influence you choice; such as new technology? or the SULEV emissions rating? Do you feel good about using less gas or polluting much less? I would."<br><br>I hear you. Sure there are other reasons to buy solar than just financial. If you do it just because it makes you feel good, power to you. Not everybody, however, can afford to spend $10,000 just to feel good. And what little (very very little) I have researched just doesn't seem to show a financial benefit.<br><br>"I can also thumb my nose at the oil meisters who have invaded our nations capital"<br><br>Prius, not politics. If you start that sort of thing, some schmuck is going to respond with something like "It's nice to finally have some adults in Washington, so we begin to clean up this energy mess we gotten into over the last eight years". Then there will be flame wars, etc.<br><br>:)

"I'm genuinely amazed at how our minds work sometimes, that's all. It's almost as if our mothers dropped us on different sides of our heads when we were infants or something"<br><br>You are so right. I work with user interface design as part of my job. You can tell an inexperianced designer if he has a strong opinion about what is right or wrong. There is never a right or wrong. A design liked by one group will be hated by another. The pattern I seem to see is a 50/50 split over and over and over again. I have come to believe that there is a brain wiring just like left/right handedness. The best that differing political groups can hope for is mutual respect. One group will never convince the other.<br><br>I believe in the free market and I believe in taking care of our environment (alot of us have kids, no?). I know so little, and seem to know less every day! To help myself out I sometimes step back and get away from the details.<br><br>The government controlling what people drive and how they live will only move us toward a society managed by government (call is socialization, whatever). When I look at other countries in the world that have gone down that path (USSR, Eastern Europe, China, etc) I see countries absolutely devastated by their handling of the ecology,with problems so far worse than ours that it is hard to comprehend. There is something about a system that lets people control there own choices that tends to be better for the ecology. Whatever we do, we should avoid going down their political path.<br><br>Have faith. Hybrids are going to become a significant portion of the market, soon. And Toyota is hinting that fuel cells may be fairly close. The free market may not get us directly there, but it will get us there.<br><br>Ok, I promise my next post will only talk about the Prius :)

mo_mpg said:<br><br> "However, from my perspective, I don't believe there is an "energy mess" (or "energy crisis"), but rather there is primarily not enough application of existing _energy efficiency_ technology."<br><br>Peter, Again I must agree with you. Obviously we must have been dropped on the 'same side of the head'. <br><br>As an energy manager, much can be done technologically to reduce energy waste, unfortunately it will take a paradigm shift for many individuals to take some responsibility for their own wasteful ways. Of course nothing provides a wake up call like a good swift kick in the pocketbook. <br><br>FWIW below is a link to a pretty good article about how California got in this mess. It goes back quite a few years.<br><br><a href=http://www.capitolalert.com/news/capalert01_20010506.html target=new>http://www.capitolalert.com/news/capalert01_20010506.html</a><br><br>\ BTW, the other day CA had about 13,000 MW of generation off line for either planned or "unplanned" maintenance. That's a good part of our shortage, coupled with Mother Nature's drought in the Northwest.<br><br>Ken (just keep on savin' energy)