An idle thought passed through my cranium driving my opalescent green Prius. What IS Toyota's marketing strategy anyway? My dealer (Durham, NC) claims to have 25 on back order and could have sold 50 more if people hadn't had to wait 5 months. He also reported that the entire 2001-2002 model year is pre-sold. So the question remains, WHY? The rate of complaint by this group would indicate that perhaps many dealers are not up to the challenge of this revolution, but is that a reason to limit the sales to a highly pent market? My dealer also reports that Toyota is taking a substantial loss ($7k+ or -) per unit. So one way to limit loss is to sell more, and spread the development/marketing cost over more units (overly simple Econ 101). So I am still clueless as to why so few people are leading the revolution when others are williing, waiting, and wanting to join the cause we all are so enthusiastic about. Your thoughts would be enlightening.

&gt; What IS Toyota's marketing strategy anyway? Your thoughts would be enlightening. <br><br>Ok.<br><br>What's the rush? Taking a year to educate salepeople and train mechanics makes a lot of sense to me. There's a lot of mis-information out there. People like us are helping correct all that *BEFORE* the mass sales begin. For example, the "selling at a loss" information you were given is wrong. Toyota is now at the break-even point. Another example is when should the oil be changed. A number of dealers are recommending every 3000 miles so they can make more money. If you follow the recommended duration of 7500 miles, they won't make as much. (Econ 101 again) Yet another example is the bill for changing the oil and rotating the tires. Toyota is suppose to pick up the bill the first 5 times, many dealers aren't aware of this yet. We're making sure they learn.<br><br>Also, how do you sell hundreds of thousands of Prius without first providing proof that it really can handle all the driving conditions we'll expose it to in the United States? I now have 10,015 miles under my belt. By telling you that and mentioning that I haven't ever had a lick of trouble, despite the fact that I endured a Minnesota winter, is all it takes. Real life endorsements from actual owners are far more effect than any review you'll ever read. But those miles take awhile to rack up. <br><br>Meanwhile, Toyota is preparing to sell its hybrid minivan, the Estima, this fall in Japan. So they'll obviously be expanding there production abilities. (Hey, it takes 3 years to build a FAB for creating CPUs.) Eventually, all their success will get the attention of the competition over here and they'll be ready for it. For now, the rollout is occuring over in Europe where they actually care about MPG and emissions. Unfortunately, the "american way" means bigger & stronger. In the United States, trucks & SUVs are selling at incredible rates. Many of them don't even have MPG listed on the window-sticker and they don't have to meet strict emissions guidelines because they are "intended for utility purposes". How do you compete with that?<br><br>I have seen improvement. Many people now understand that hybrids have the ability to self-recharge. That wasn't the case before. And at the auto show last year, there was a locked Prius on display. This year, it's open for everyone to scrutinize, touch, inspect, etc.<br><br><br>I could go on and on. There are so many influences, there's no real way of knowing what caused what decision. Hopefully, the 2002 will be commonly available. I like the fact that the 2001 is limited. Only 12,000 made means I own a collector's item. This is the first mass-market hybrid-electric. Can you say Ford Mustang 64 1/2 ?<br><br><br>JOHN<br><a href=http://home.att.net/~john1701a target=new>http://home.att.net/~john1701a</a>

My idle thought is that Toyota is challenged to promote this excellent car through the dealer network regardless of the dealer's <br>attitude/interest/competence level. If there is one single impedement between the car and the people who want it......it's the dealer.

&gt; If there is one single impedement between the car and the people who want it......it's the dealer. <br><br>Great point!<br><br>I was at the Auto Show today for 5.5 hours. During that time I encountered 2 distinct attitudes. Some of the people working for Toyota were really excited that an actual owner was there to help answer questions, others didn't give a rip.<br><br>If seasoned salespeople have been doing the same thing for so many years, enjoying it and making the money they desire, why change? Having Toyota push this new concept, without much of a resulting commission, has to be a huge challenge.<br><br>JOHN<br><a href=http://home.att.net/~john1701a target=new>http://home.att.net/~john1701a</a>

In Message 4038 drhalister asked:<br>&gt;What IS Toyota's marketing strategy anyway?<br>A visit to your friendly, local Prius dealer with a request for the TU (Toyota University) Prius training material (binders and video tapes) will answer your question.<br><br>&gt; My dealer (Durham, NC) claims to have 25 on <br>&gt; back order and could have sold 50 more if <br>&gt; people hadn't had to wait 5 months. <br>Um - by "back order" your dealercritter must mean "ordered from Toyota by customers on the web" since dealers are NOT allowed to "sell them" since dealers can't "get them" into inventory.<br><br>&gt; He also reported that the entire 2001-2002 <br>&gt; model year is pre-sold.<br>Really??? be VERY careful to keep your feet out of the BULLSHIT on your next visit to the dealer. Toyota (the folks that manufacture the Prius) says "We are currently taking Prius purchase requests from customers daily. &lt;snip&gt; For requests finalized and submitted by your dealer today, the expected vehicle delivery month is June/Mid-July 2001. Make a witnessed, signed, cash on the table $5000 bet with your dealer - then show the critter the Prius order status page at: <a href=http://prius.toyota.com/buy/order_notice.htm target=new>http://prius.toyota.com/buy/order_notice.htm</a> This sounds like a dealercritter that would actually take a cash deposit on factory installed NAV and side airbags too.<br><br>&gt; So the question remains, WHY? <br>And THE answer is, simply, that Toyota is running at absolute MAXIMUM capacity on it's 2 (? supposed to be 2 P lines up and runnin..) Prius production lines. Don't forget that Prius is sold in Japan, US and Canada as well as GB / Europe and is about to be introduced in Australia / NZ. That's one hell of a lot of NiMh batteries and LoRR weenies required, among other parts!<br><br>Bill Powell<br>(Prius: Driving Mine!)

I can't believe how long it takes for you to get your Prius's in the U.S.. I stopped in to my local dealer 2.5 weeks ago, my salesman checked around and found a new one in a showroom 200 Km away and I took delivery of it Thursday night... less than 2 weeks after I paid my down payment. It's a Canadian delivery Prius and has Cruise and a CD player built in... but I don't get 3 years of oil changes like it sounds you guys are getting.<br> I just want to add, this is my first Toyota and this thing is fantastic!

Well, thanks for everyone's astute comments about why so few of these cars are available. John1701a had the most sensible answer for my money(i.e., controlled rollout period). I also accept that salesmen are under-inclined to push a car that people can't drive off the lot, i.e., close the deal while the cutomer is tangibly present. Even the 64 1/2 Mustang had an initial run of 125,000+. But it seems to me that Saturn got the ball rolling faster with a less exciting product (although the Saturn concept is pretty exciting if not under-executed).<br><br>So I am left to additional wondering about the lack of verve with which Toyota is developing and promoting the Prius. MY best guess? Until the price of gas becomes painful for most Americans the interest in SULEV and high MPG vehicles will be low.<br>Loving the Prius in the Southern Part of Heaven.

So, does anyone have any info about other new vehicles? It takes as long as a year to get a PT Cruiser, that seems kind of odd. And what about the Insight? Why is the CVT version only available in Japan? <br><br>And yup, there isn't much motivation for a high MPG vehicle when gas is so cheap. It's just $1.32 per gallon here right now. Maybe we can raise interest in the SULEV aspect...<br><br>JOHN<br><a href=http://home.att.net/~john1701a target=new>http://home.att.net/~john1701a</a>

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota underestimated demand in the US. <br><br>As to why dealers are less than enthusiastic about marketing the Prius: 1. Ignorance of the car. Don't realize it is such a gem. 2. The way it is being marketed renders them obsolete (simlar to drop in service once airlines capped fees to travel agents, service became crap), which is treatening and provides no incentive for service. 3. Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Better to sell inventory on the lot today, rather than risk losing a sale that won't close for 3 or 5 months down the road.<br><br>These are gross generalizations, but may point to general impressions.<br><br>George

Estimating the consumer market is awful. <br><br>Look at the Aztec. You'd think 60,000 sales this year would be a fairly modest figure, that they'd be kicking themselves later discovering demand was much higher than expected. Instead, they're piling up in the lots. Only about 12,000 sales so far. Excess inventory is costly.<br><br>Comparisons to the computer industry are great, since they move at least 4 times faster than the automotive industry. But it still takes them over a year to recover from an over/underestimation. RAM supply & price has changed drastically over the last year. And Sony is having a terrible time making enough PS2 systems. Look at Apple, introducing a pure USB system in their iMac was actually too soon. And they got slammed for it. Yet just a year later, USB devices were everywhere. They understood what the market really wanted. But then with their newer iMac and Cube, they introduced DVD. Unfortunately in that case, the market was begging for recordable CDs instead. Oops! Now the newest iMac Apple (introduced just last week in Japan) dropped the DVD and replaced it with a rewritable CD drive instead. Too bad their design wasn't flexible enough to accommodate *both* types of disc drive.<br><br>Since Prius doesn't have any competition yet (family sized hybrid), judging what each market wants must be really tough. And we're just the US. As it was already pointed out, Canada, Europe, Austrialia, and Hawaii are all unique markets just getting introduced to the Prius too. In my opinion, doing all that inside of just one year is actually pretty impressive.<br><br>JOHN<br><a href=http://home.att.net/~john1701a target=new>http://home.att.net/~john1701a</a>

In Message 4052 taramardikes replied:<br>&gt;I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota underestimated <br>&gt; demand in the US. <br>I think they estimated fairly accurately given the projected production "limit" of 12,000 Prius allocated to the U.S. Consider the "traditional" alternative: Produce a bunch and ship them all over at once to dealerships. Market flood, uneven allocation and, once "gone", a LONG wait for more. Dealercritters declaring that Prius is "in short supply" and raping potential customers. I cite the Honda Insight as an example: some places you can't find an Insight for under $3k over MRS.. Other places it's "discounted" to $1500 under simply because the store is WAY overstocked. Supply and demand gone horribly wrong.<br>I publicly applaud Toyota and Priusman for making 90 day delivery a reality in the majority of cases. A VERY difficult scheduling task done right!<br><br>&gt; As to why dealers are less than enthusiastic <br>&gt; about marketing the Prius: 1. Ignorance of the <br>&gt; car. <br>Take a look at Edmonds to see how much the dealerctitter makes on a Prius. About $1500 + a small holdback with little or no flexibility to pull a fast one except for the occasional "rube". Meanwhile, they have a BUNCH of lot-plan cars sitting there, all costing them money AND they have LOTS of room to play games.<br>No - salescritters are a generally lazy lot (and I DO NOTE the outstanding exceptions that help inform our groups - the "profession" needs many more of them!) and expect to close a sale on the same day the shopper makes their appearance. Advertising is there to draw customers to the store and provide the salescritters with the opportunity to sell something - ANYTHING - right then and there and get it off the lot plan. Prius, FORTUNATELY, doesn't work "that way".<br><br>Your generalizations are right in line with my experiences - just don't go far enough! :-)<br>Meanwhile, I'm VERY curious just how Prius is reshaping auto marketing and delivery.<br><br>Bill Powell<br>(Prius: That Big Pile Of Snow In The Driveway!)

I have another related theory:<br><br>Many car salesmen move around among dealerships quickly. I don't know how often I have gone back to a dealer to talk to my salesman about something and found out that he had left the dealer (Saturn excluded!) A salesman who moves around a lot is unlikely to be interested in spending time on a sale where he might not be there to collect the commission in 3 or 4 months.<br><br>In addition, the Prius is not a car you can sell without knowing anything more than the marketing line. You probably NEED to go to the classes. Permanent short-timers are not likely to get much payback on their investment in training.<br><br>There is an upside, which I discovered during my test drive recently: Make it very clear at the start that you are only interested in a Prius. Ask for the Prius specialist, even. The only people who will be interested in talking to you are the ones who have a longer-term investment in the dealer or at least the Prius. That's goodness!<br><br>Burns<br>MY2002 wannabe<br><br>P.S. By the way Priusman and others who have any influence: I'm waiting for side air bags. I'm willing to pay for side air bags! I hope they will be in the next MY because the moment I can order an MY2002 with side air, you'll see my name on the dotted line!

Thanks Bill and John, You guys are getting so good that I don't even have to defend the launch strategy anymore. I might even have to dig up one of those Time/Life Millenium coffee table books for you both. Monthly production is currently 3K/month more than double from the first generation - in general 1,500 for domestic Japan, 1,000 for the U.S., 400 for the Euros and 100 for the Canadians (the cars are selling better south of the border, even proportionally)Additionally the battery supplier (we're the 49% partner, Matsushita is 51% sold under the Panasonic brand)is making batteries in 3 different configurations for mini EVs, full size EVs and HEVs - so there's capacity issues as well. If the Euros or Canadians push back, we get a few more cars in a given month. We want to establish the technology, establish value with it. We don't want to flood the market and have to incentivize a new product. There's still a big education learning curve with consumers and it takes time. Its a calculated approach.....anyway, on #3735 I documented some of the more relevant postings. The internet marketing strategy, why the dealers aren't stocking cars is reviewed on #2105, 1031, 886 FAQs, 617 and 340. <br>Did anyone go to the big autoshows this year (LA, Detroit, Chi) and get those Prius holigram (pardon my spelling)suitcase baggage tags? I have a whole drawer of these things that I'm trying to unload. Any thoughts. (I know be careful of what you ask for). PM

Hmmm. I can see the avalanche coming from that post of yours. : )<br><br>Let me get the snowball rolling. I would be happy to take two of those tags off of you and pay for the shipping. Just email me.<br><br>Also, I have seen on ocassion, the mention of the Prius coffee table book. This particular site doesn't have a search feature, so it may very well have been answered before. Sorry for the redundancy, but where, if it is possible, to order/purchase/mug/rob/ask/beg/ or steal this book from? Thanks.

I would like to be put on the short list for one of these prized suitcase baggage tags. But service the people that already have a prius. I am lurking around waiting on the 2002 model.. started looking around for the best dealership. It seems it will come down to two. Maund or Champion. Got an Olds (I know a four letter word around here) from Maund, but when I stoped by for the handouts I got the feeling I was in the way. <br><br>So, I would flash this item under the Dealercritters Nose to show I mean business, where do I sign..<br><br>I too would pay shipping..<br><br>Perry <br>(hopping to be in a prius by x-mas)